ad banner for Security Solutions International
Advertising Email FAQ Home RSS Search Speaking Townhall YouTube
Kneecapping Barack Obama at every opportunity.
« Conservative Grapevine | Main | A Few Of My Favorite "Linker" Websites »
March 04, 2008
John Hawkins Blogging While Female: 5 Conservative Women Bloggers Talk About Gender Issues And The Blogosphere

Every so often in the blogosphere, on the Left and the Right, hostile debates over gender seem to rise up to the surface like a leviathan from the depths. Some male bloggers tend to think women get more links because they're women, some female bloggers think there's some sort of a "good ol' boys" club that keeps them from getting big, and more than a few people seem to get huffy about the whole debate.

However, the fact is that the issue is much more complex than it appears on the surface. The blogging experience ISN'T THE SAME for men and women. There are different advantages, disadvantages, and challenges that both men and women have to face.

That's something I've been aware of for a long time, but a particular conversation inspired me to put together an article that covers the unique trials and travails that female bloggers face.

At CPAC, I had an opportunity to speak to Liz Mair, a blogger who is now the Republican National Committee's eCampaign Communications Director. Liz and I had exchanged a few emails and had done radio together a handful of times. Although I didn't know her very well, one thing that had struck me about her was how formal she was -- even in off the air conversations, before we went live on the radio. So, when I met her in person, I was surprised that she wasn't the least bit stuffy and that her whole manner of speaking was different. Later, I asked Liz about the difference between meeting her in person and talking with her on the radio. What she said was,

Partly, my tendency to sound more formal when on radio (or TV) is the result of my legal training -- my brain is wired to "go formal" when I know I'm speaking to an audience. Partly, my tendency to do this is also to ensure I don't come off as "unserious" though -- that is something that I think most commentators of any sort should be concerned about, and I suspect that I'm not the only one (or the only female one) who's attuned to it.

Personally, it has never even occurred to me to "go formal" when I do a radio show, nor have I ever worried about being considered "unserious." That started my brain spinning like Speedy Gonzalez in a hamster ball: did Liz and I look at the issue differently because we're different people or because I'm male and she's female? Are there lots of other little subtle differences between the ways men and women look at blogging that I hadn't caught onto before?

I decided to find out.

So, in order to do that, I reached out to a few of the more intriguing women on the right side of the blogosphere and interviewed them about their backgrounds and gender issues. The results, as you're about to see, are fascinating and in some cases, the abuse they have had to deal with is more than a little disturbing. Let's start out with...

Pamela Geller

Pamela Geller has managed to build up a large audience at her blog Atlas Shrugs with her exuberant writing style, her ferocious attacks on radical Islam, her vlogs, and her excellent "gets" of big name interview subjects. Few people in the blogosphere work harder than Pamela or put more effort into making their blogs successful.

Behind the scenes, Pamela tends to be as expressive as she is in public, but when you get to know her, her character, fierce determination, and simple decency shine through in a way that is difficult to capture on her blog.

Background

Pamela Gellar Pamela was an associate publisher of the New York Observer and a director of strategic planning at the New York Daily News. Over time, Pamela started commenting on blogs and eventually, a poster at Little Green Footballs suggested that she start her own blog. She took that advice in 2005 and the rest is history.

Pamela on feminism.

I don't need equal rights....I'm already equal. I don't need somebody telling me something that's already a fact. All these women like Gloria Steinem, "Oh, we made it happen for you!" You didn't make it happen for me. That whole movement...is rooted in Marxist-Leninist propaganda....I'm not a feminist, I'm an anti-feminist. I think it has hurt women enormously.

You've gotten a lot of flack for a bikini vlog that you did. Do you want to talk about that?

Sure. It's interesting to me that would become such a point of conversation, derision, what have you, when it was really so innocent. You might say, "Oh, come on," but it really was. I was supposed to go to Israel and the war broke out and they cancelled all my interviews. There I am, standing with a ticket to Israel, and I was like, "Am I not going to go now?" So, I went to Israel and it was an unbelievable trip. …Then my mother had a major stroke and I flew right back, grabbed my kids, went to Florida, and we were spending the whole of our time by her bed, because she had not come out of a coma. The kids would say, "Come on, Mom, let's get out of here," and we'd run right to the beach.

I said to one of my girls, "I've gotta do a vlog. I've gotta do a rundown of what happened in Israel." So, she said, "Let's do it," and she turned on the camera and I was in the ocean and I started talking and that's the infamous bikini vlog that you are talking about. I guess because no one had done it, it really caught fire.

...The craziest stuff went on with that video. You have no idea how many (parody) videos were made from it and ALL not by friends of Pamela.

It got major hittage...but, the message of it was enormously important, so if that's what it took to get it out, hey, hey, hey, I am all for it...

Does it bother you that there are guys who are coming to your page because they like the way you look or do you look at it as, "Traffic's traffic?"

...I mean listen, if you're looking for babes...there are a million sites with babes and T&A. They're not coming to me for that. There are girls that are far prettier, that are far younger -- so, yes, they may like my look, but they like what I have to say, they like the whole package...

Do you get any vulgar, nasty hate mail?

Oh sure. I do delete that stuff. Look, there are websites out there that are solely devoted to me, that photoshop me in sexual positions with senior Bush administration officials. You have a limited amount of energy each day and this is what these people do with their energy each day...it's frightening.

...When they Google Earth my house and my car, that I thought was kind of sick, you know? Because what am I doing? I'm just voicing my opinion. ...What it's really about is a form of attrition, it's a form of harassment, where a normal person would say, "I don't need this sh*t. Who needs this? They Google Earth your house, the names that you're called, and the photoshopping." But you see, I want very much to leave the nation that I grew up in to my children. That's why I do what I do.

Rachel Lucas

Rachel Lucas is an extraordinarily talented writer, the sort of person who could write a post about her grocery list and make it interesting. She's also sharp-witted, profane, and has a Coulteresque knack for coming at a story from a completely different direction than anyone else. All of that is mixed in with posts about her personal life, pictures of her dog dressed in funny clothes, and a wry, self-effacing sense of humor. It was that talent, years ago, that had turned her into one of the bigger bloggers on the Right before she mysteriously quit and came back in May of last year (She's already back over 3,000 readers a day). What happened to her? What does she think about women in the blogosphere and perhaps most importantly, does she curse like a drunken sailor on shore leave when she's on the phone? All those questions, and more, were answered in our interview.

The Warm-Up

Rachel comes across as surprisingly shy on the phone, so I took a few moments to show her I was friendly before we got started. After she seemed a little more comfortable, I noted that I was surprised she hadn't dropped any F-bombs in our conversation so far. She replied,

"Have you noticed that over the past week or two, I haven't even said that on my blog? ...My mom told me I have to knock it off." (Laughs) Still, profanity count for the phone call: 3, with two F-bombs. Is that toned down from her blog? Maybe a little, but she doesn't know me that well.

Background

Rachel is also a bit of an oddity, at least amongst the bloggers I interviewed, in that she doesn't have a writing background except, as she joked, her experience as the editor of the school paper when she was in 5th grade.

Originally, Rachel began her blog after her father had a heart attack as a way to communicate between his family and friends. From there, she started looking around at other blogs, wrote some rants to "amuse her brother," and then she asked for some links from two of the bigger blogs, got them, and started doing political blogging on a regular basis.

Rachel explains why she doesn't have a picture on her blog now (and why there isn't one with this piece)

It's maybe 5% because of the stalkers, but it's mostly because I have seen what they do to other people. I have seen what they do to Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin. They photoshop them. Do nasty stuff to them. Like pictures of Michelle Malkin hanging from a noose. That sort of thing.

What Rachel thinks about female bloggers who do put up their pics to try to draw traffic.

The ones who are clearly trying to use their looks to get ahead, I have a little less respect for because they shouldn't feel like they need to. I don't hold it against them, but if you're good, people will read your stuff even if you don't put a pic up.

Why did Rachel quit blogging at one point when she had more than 10,000 readers per day?

I really regret that I got out. Partly because I didn't like all the pressure. At that point in my life, I didn't feel like I knew enough to deserve that many people reading what I wrote...and the relationship I was in at the time, my ex, he didn't like it because I spent so much time on it. He thought it was "creepy." A lot of people don't understand why anyone would read blogs. They think it's voyeurism, they think it's creepy....My sister doesn't read it. She thinks it's "creepy." ...Plus, I was getting a lot of hate mail and some of it was borderline bad stalker material.

What advice would Rachel give to people who want to create a successful blog?

I think a lot of blogs by people who complain that they don't get much traffic? Those blogs tend to be very boring. If you can read the exact same material on 10,000 different blogs and all they're doing is repeating the same thing and it's not very well written, I don't know what they expect. I think people need to have a little more humor, either really know what they're talking about... and have connections and do interviews, or they need to be a lot more interesting. I think a lot of blogs are really boring.

Amanda Carpenter

As anyone who knows her can tell you, Amanda Carpenter is an ambitious, driven, extremely talented reporter/columnist/vlogger for Townhall, who is also the author of The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy's Dossier on Hillary Clinton

Aside from Michelle Malkin, if I had to lay down a bet on the female blogger most likely to land her own show on Fox, CNN, or MSNBC one day, my money would be on Amanda.

Background

Amanda Carpenter Amanda started paying her own bills at 17, paid her own way through college at Ball State after a career ending injury cost her a softball scholarship, and she had, literally, 27 different jobs -- at Levis, Bath And Body Works, cocktail waitressing, the Sunglass Hut, landscaping, etc. -- before she got a full-time position after graduation.

In her senior year, ironically, Amanda wasn't allowed to join the school paper because she wasn't a journalism major, so she started rabblerousing online. She wrote about how the school's tuition money was being spent, she posted professors' salaries, and she started getting more and more attention -- some of it negative -- for her work. Those efforts eventually helped land her a post-college job with Human Events. From there, she moved on to a full-time gig with Townhall. She also blogs at Glamour.

Here's Amanda discussing how she was targeted at Ball State for promoting a conservative viewpoint.

There was a graduate assistant who had photoshopped 400 pages of pornography of me onto the university website that the administration would not do anything about...I had to print it off and take it to the police station because the...campus people said, well, you know it's free speech. ...Do you know how demeaning it was to have to print that off and take it somewhere? It wasn't me, but it was lifelike.

Do you think women are subjects of more vitriol in the blogosphere than men?

...Whether you are a guy or a girl, you will be criticized, especially if you mess up. ...But, yeah, with women it's almost certainly a lot more sexual and demeaning...

Do you ever feel like people say, eh, she's a woman, so I don't have to take her arguments seriously?

I have never encountered that. In fact, within the conservative movement, I think being a girl and trying to be taken seriously...you're actually welcomed a little bit more. There are some people who try to take the snarky, cute route -- you know, dress in the cute clothes, put on the lip gloss -- the people who have been around for a while don't really have a lot of tolerance for that...

You have any opinion of the feminist, liberal blogs out there?

Well, they're some of the ones that are the most hateful. If you look at the language that's used on those...it's just incredibly base. It's this whole feminist thing where it's empowering to use foul language, to do the lowcut shirts, and act sleazy -- and I don't just mean that just sexually, I mean intellectually as well...

Do you get any repulsive hate mail, that sort of thing?

Oh, yeah, I have a file of it. I save the good ones...and in case anything were to happen, there are crazy people out there, I'd want a paper trail of some sort.

Ericka Andersen

There aren't a lot of bloggers who can say that they have "spent a summer in Mozambique, Africa helping to build the World AIDS Children's Orphanage with Teen Missions International, Inc," but Ericka Anderson isn't your run-of-the-mill blogger. She is an impossibly bubbly, enthusiastic, good-natured news producer/reporter for Human Events, who also blogs at Redstate.

Background

Ericka Anderson Ericka went to Indiana University, got a degree in journalism, and then got an internship on the editorial page of the The Washington Examiner. That was her springboard to a job with Human Events. Here's some of what Ericka had to say...

Do you feel like it's an advantage or disadvantage to be female in the blogosphere?

I think that in the blogosphere and in the media in general, there are more men. So, I think that a woman's presence is an advantage just because...our faces and names will get picked up more easily.

At the same time, I think that women...are more apt to be criticized harshly. People come up with dirty names and talk trash about women, not because it's more accepted, but because...it's a lot easier for people to toss around words that are derogatory towards women...Also, my picture is up next to my work, and you get a lot of (critical) comments about the pictures.

Do you think that if you were a man you'd have less critical comments or that they would be less vulgar and sexualized? In other words, the criticism level is the same, but it's nastier because you are a woman. Would that be accurate?

I think that the criticism towards women is different. You're right, I don't know that there is any more, but it's more harsh and like you said, vulgar and sexualized. I don't think men get that at all....

Ericka shared some of her hate mail with me. Here are a few examples to give you a feel for it.

* "Some stupid dame who writes a stupid column in a neanderthal publication has about as much credibility as a Mississippi high school journalism C student."

* "Soon, the conservative death march will come to an and. God willing. Stop writing, you amateur little prig. Stay in the kitchen where the Baptists think you belong. Please. Stop writing, because you suck."

* "I just saw you against John Soltz, How about you show your support for the war, and sign up... Hopefully you would get shot in the head. dumb slag."

Do you think women sometimes use their looks to get ahead in the blogosphere and does that bother you?

I definitely think women use their looks to get ahead, especially in the media. ...Everyone is just more drawn to attractive people. People use that to their advantage and I think that obviously, people should be hired for their skills, but at the same time, you have to give people what they want. That's just the way the world works, so I don't have a problem with people using their looks to get ahead if they can do it.

If someone said to you, "Ericka, I have always wanted to work at a magazine like Human Events," what advice would you give on how to succeed and would it be different for men and women?

Especially if you're talking about DC, and you would be if you want to get into political journalism, I would say you would start out by attending lots of different social events and...networking. ...It really comes down to who you know in this business. That's how I got my job and that's how I continue to make contacts, and I don't think it's any different for men and women.

Yes, you do have to have talent. You've got to be able to do your job. But, I think it comes down to who you know....

Michelle Malkin

Michelle Malkin is not just one of my favorite bloggers; she's one of the people that I most respect and admire. She's ambitious, courageous, talented, a really decent person, and I am not sure if I have ever seen anyone who does a better job of managing her time. Since I'm such a big fan of her work and since Michelle is arguably the most successful blogger overall on the Right -- she was one of the people I most wanted to talk to for this interview.

Background

Michelle Malkin Michelle said she first started becoming politically active when she was writing at Oberlin College. From there she became an editorial writer and columnist for the Los Angeles Daily News. Then she moved on to the Seattle Times where she wrote columns and did investigative reporting. She has also had a column with Creator's syndicate since 1999 and here's a little something about Michelle's background that I certainly didn't know:

"I worked for Arianna Huffington many, many moons ago. She lured me away to work on the failed Michael Huffington for Senate campaign in 1994. I worked there for 3 months and it was my first and last job in politics, ever. That was the silver lining. It got rid of any ambition I had about working in politics."

From there, Michelle created a primitive website way back in 1999, but the blog that she has made famous today? It didn't really get going until June of 2004.

Here's Michelle on whether it's an "advantage or disadvantage to be female in the blogosphere."

(I) tired a long time ago of these debates about gender and the blogosphere and the white man keeping female bloggers down. Why can’t we break into the boys' club? Wah, wah, wah! Well, maybe it's because you've become such a tired bore, beating your victim drum all the time.

Michelle had this to say about Kathy Sierra, who got an enormous amount of sympathetic attention from the mainstream media because of some death threats she received.

The Kathy Sierra thing, I thought was amusing. Not to belittle her security situation, which was very serious...

But, that's like what? A Tuesday for you?

Yes!!! A Tuesday morning....the shock and the horror with which the tech elite greeted that whole debacle, to me, shows how out of touch and unplugged one side of our business and our world is from the other. There are a lot of double standards, and in particular, that conservative women just aren't seen in some ways (laughs) as human beings. We're just supposed to expect the level of vitriol that they look at with such horror when it's aimed at one of their people.

Speaking of vitriol and horror, Michelle and her family once had to actually move for safety reasons. Long story short, a group of misfits at UC Santa Cruz managed to run some military recruiters off campus and, because they weren't very smart, they wrote a press release bragging about it, posted it on their website, and used their own home phone numbers as contact numbers. Michelle was one of the many people to link to the website and publish the press release and when, inevitably, these morons were deluged with abusive phone calls, they blamed Michelle for the whole thing and accused her of publishing their private home numbers, which, of course, they had posted on a press release.

In response to this, liberal bloggers and forums that were undoubtedly hoping to get Michelle and her family harassed and/or murdered, responded by posting her phone number and maps to her house online while maliciously and falsely accusing her of invading the privacy of the UC Santa Cruz students. After asking her about the experience, here's what she told me,

(We had) people posting photos of our past house...people urging their minions to come and stake out my house. ....I had tons of people email me and tell me they were going to come to my home. They posted my private phone number and I had dozens of people calling and leaving crude messages. ...Yeah, it was one of those things where you think about your family, you think about your safety, and you do what you have to do. But, does it stop you? No.

Michelle had this to say about whether she feels like she isn't taken seriously because she's a woman.

In general, no, I think it has more to do with my ideology and I think...liberal racism is much more rampant than liberal sexism. As an example of that, here we are engaged in this whole debate of the use of Barack Obama's middle name.

Again, I find it amusing in terms of liberal double standards that none of these people who are so worried about middle name calling had anything to say when Keith Olbermann went on cable TV and started invoking my foreign sounding maiden name (Maglalang) as some sort of game winning argument. There he is going Mag-la-gong, Mag-la-gong, mispronouncing it...I think if I weren't a conservative, there would have been more of an uproar about it or at least some principled liberal would have said, 'That's a really dumb way to argue against somebody. Can we all just grow up?' But, no, no, that didn't happen.

I think that was less because I am woman than because I am a conservative minority. ...I think that it always has made a lot of people uncomfortable and irate because I happen to be these three things: a conservative, a woman, and a minority. In a lot of people's lives, that's just such a toxic, unacceptable combination. If you look at people who have that combination in public life, they all have similar stories....

Is Michelle bothered that there are undoubtedly a lot of guys going to take a look at her vlogs because of her looks?

Well again, it's a double edged sword and I think a lot of women who are successful at blogging and vlogging realize that, so you use it to your advantage. There's nothing wrong with using what God gave you to spread your message, to get people to pay attention to your content. ...On YouTube, the key to producing a viral video is to be very visual and that includes looking good....If people only knew what I look like half the time...

So humble, so humble.

(Laughs) I don't know...

Michelle on how to be a success at blogging.

There are a couple of factors. The first is not to try to be somebody else. If you want to be a success...don't be another Michelle Malkin or Glenn Reynolds or a Drudge wannabe. The marketplace of ideas rewards original ideas and original thinkers and I think having a niche is very important. ...The blogosphere rewards fresh information and reporting, energy, initiative, and...I think a lot of the humor blogs do well, like Iowahawk, Ace of Spades HQ. There are so many people with something unique to add. Plus, it takes a work ethic. You're not going to be successful if you only post 2 or 3 times a day and if you don't have fun doing it, you shouldn't be in it.

Facebook MySpace Twitter del.icio.us Digg Newsvine Propeller Reddit Stumbleupon Technorati
    Share this article!
I like! I don't like. Score: 2 John Hawkins | 10:00 AM | Permalink   Trackbacks (3)

Note: Comments and Trackbacks for this entry closed on March 9, 2008 10:00 AM
Comments (136)
Michelle's posts about advice to bloggers was interesting . . . could you make a how-to-write-your-own-blog post one day, Mr. Hawkins?
Wonder when Whine-O/Tom Wark will show up with his trademark bile and hatred for Conservative women that dare to think they have the same First Amendment Rights that he does.

He was also part of the group insisting that Ms. Malkin was guilty for publishing a press release. He railed against her, called her every racist and sexist name in the book, then cheered when her private information was made public and her children were being threatned.

Real classy guy!
Oh boy, can I relate to all of this. I have 3 websites devoted to smearing me. I just ignore them. I have at least one stalker. I can't tell you the rude disgusting comments and e-mails I delete weekly.

It used to bother me, but not anymore. I realize there are just sad bitter people out there, so I just ignore them.
Rightwingsparkle...I have seen some of the garbage hurled your way...sad.

Anyway GREAT post!

Just remember, the more we are hated, the better we are doing our jobs!
Thank you for this, John. When the Kathy Sierra story broke, a lot of people were surprised that many conservative women bloggers just kinda shrugged it off. Now maybe people will see that we live with this crap every day, and we don't let it get to us. We can't.

RG
I heart Rachel Lucas.

One of the funniest blogs on the intrawebs.

Highly recommended.
Excellent post John. I think this is a great topic and I liked the way you talked to female bloggers. Now how about the guys? This is an endlessly fascinating subject. I work in the publishing world myself (a very small trade publication corner) and find that the gender thing is less of a deal than in corporate America where I've also worked. Well done!!!!
Pamela on feminism.
I don't need equal rights....I'm already equal.


Life is a lot easier for attractive people. Maybe Pamela wouldn't feel the same way if she was plain.
Life is a lot easier for attractive people. Maybe Pamela wouldn't feel the same way if she was plain.

Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 11:23 AM |

Does it hurt to be that stupid?
Does it hurt to be that stupid?
Posted by bthewolf


I didn't mean to imply she was stupid.
A line from Cammile Claudel: She's as good as a man; she must be a witch!

Guess toddle just hates them wimminses when they get all uppity and intelligent and stuff.
A line from Camille Claudel: She's as good as a man; she must be a witch!

Guess toddle just hates them wimminses when they get all uppity and intelligent and stuff.
I didn't mean to imply she was stupid.

Posted by toddl March 4, 2008 11:33 AM


He meant YOU ToddlER.

He forgot to include that you are a sexist jerk!

Life is a lot easier for attractive people. Maybe Pamela wouldn't feel the same way if she was plain.


Life is a lot easier for intelligent people, too, but that's something you'll just have to read about on blogs.
Life is a lot easier for attractive people. Maybe Pamela wouldn't feel the same way if she was plain.

Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 11:23 AM


Sounds like you agree with Rush's assessment of feminism there Todd. To quote Rush from his Undeniable Truths of Life: "feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society."
He meant YOU ToddlER.
He forgot to include that you are a sexist jerk!
Posted by StanW


I knew that stan. Just thought it was a little more clever than saying (Does it hurt to be that stupid?), I don't know wolf, does it?

He forgot to include that you are a sexist jerk!

Not true stan, in fact you're the sj! I made that statement with men and women in mind! You know tall people have life easier too. Now go on stannie, call me an altitudist!
Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 11:33 AM |

Stupid is as stupid does.
"feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society."

I feel so dirty and greasy just reading Rush's words, but what Rush doesn't understand is that a rising tide lifts all boats or women. But I guess that talent on loan from God was recalled when he wrote that one!
Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 11:54 AM |

I wouldn't know if it hurts to be as stupid as you are, so you'll have tell us. You see, that would be because, by very measures of intelligent would I be considered stupid, you on the other hand prove your stupidity with 999 out of every 1000 posts.
Not true stan, in fact you're the sj! I made that statement with men and women in mind! You know tall people have life easier too. Now go on stannie, call me an altitudist!

Posted by toddl March 4, 2008 11:54 AM


Amazing.

Just just expressed your opinion that plain women cannot get along on just talent and skill, but must have looks to get by.

And then you have the gall to call me sexist!

Men and women in mind? So the statement "Maybe Pamela wouldn't feel the same way if she was plain" references men in what way?

This would be a really good time for you to STFU, ToddlER!

what Rush doesn't understand is that a rising tide lifts all boats or women


But you were the one saying that life is easier for attractive women. I'd say "make up your mind," but that presupposes you have one.
a rising tide lifts all boats or women


Isn't that a quote from Ted Kennedy?
Well we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Just wondering though, have you never heard it said that attractive people have an easier time, all other things being equal?
But you were the one saying that life is easier for attractive women. I'd say "make up your mind," but that presupposes you have one.
Posted by CavalierX


Seriously man, why do you think that I may not have a mind? (disagreeing with you or coming to a different conclusion doesn't count)

Okay here goes (I'll try explaining what I meant).

A rising tide lifts all boats. Plain and pretty are lifted. Pretty will just rise a little higher.
Seriously man, why do you think that I may not have a mind?


Because I've seen no evidence to convince me that you do. I'm a mind skeptic. You've rarely done anything more than parrot old talking points and fling cheap, childish insults. I've had more interesting conversations with http://nlp-addiction.com/eliza/">ELIZA.
re the comments on feminism---

Pamela is correct--she already IS equal. Just like every single one of us posting here. That does not mean that we are equally able to express ourselves clearly, or are equally good-looking (or not), or that our opinions are even equally sought-after. It also does not mean that we all will be offered the same opportunities in life.

What it does mean is that we each have the chance to use our God-given talents to whatever extent we desire in order to pursue our dreams. And whether we succeed or fail, the fact that we have that chance is what equality is all about.
A rising tide lifts all boats. Plain and pretty are lifted. Pretty will just rise a little higher.


Alright, I'll play.
a) Why do you think that is?
b) What evidence do you have to support your statement?
c) What is your solution -- a Harrison Bergeron-like government Attractiveness Equality Bill?
Pamela is correct--she already IS equal. Just like every single one of us posting here.


Come on, now... you know that Liberals believe in mandated equality of outcome, not equality of inception.
I've had more interesting conversations with ELIZA.

And I'm guessing that's where you get your best sex too.

It also does not mean that we all will be offered the same opportunities in life.

True. Unless you think it is not fair to get paid less for doing the same http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_pay_for_women">job
based on your gender.
Unless you think it is not fair to get paid less for doing the same job
based on your gender.

Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 12:55 PM |

Except that that's not legal, and you'd be hard pressed to find evidence of that allegation. But please feel free to try.
True. Unless you think it is not fair to get paid less for doing the same job
based on your gender.

Posted by toddl March 4, 2008 12:55 PM


He pulls out a discredited statistic to make his point. Imagine my surprise!

So let me get this straight, ToddlER...

We have illegal immigration because businesses hire the illegals that they will work for less money.

But women will work for less money than men?

So why are there any men still employed?
True. Unless you think it is not fair to get paid less for doing the same job
based on your gender.
Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 12:55 PM |

Typical leftist ignoramus. Using Wikepedia as a source. If brains were lard, you would not grease too big a pan. It is just plain fun to watch the liberals make complete fools of themselves over and over again.
Well we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Just wondering though, have you never heard it said that attractive people have an easier time, all other things being equal?

Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 12:12 PM


I would say that's definitely true from my own personal experience. I am much sexier and much more successful than almost everyone I know.
Posted by bjlillo
March 4, 2008 1:12 PM |

LOL...hey BJ, you been sipping on the brandy to drown your sorrows about Favre retiring today?
LOL...hey BJ, you been sipping on the brandy to drown your sorrows about Favre retiring today?

Posted by NORSEMAN March 4, 2008 1:17 PM


BJ is having delusions of adequacy again! ;)

And I hear the Packers have already found a replacement for Farve... his wife. She was there with him the whole time, helped him study the play books, and even sat in the stands while he practiced and played.

So she's qualified to take over.




Right?
Right?
Posted by StanW
March 4, 2008 1:22 PM |

Absolutely Stan. That is what made Hillary qualified as well. By the way, Barack Millhouse Obama's qualifications are???? He did not even practice with the team or study the playbook.

By the way, Barack Millhouse Obama's qualifications are???? He did not even practice with the team or study the playbook.

Posted by NORSEMAN March 4, 2008 1:28 PM


Yes, but I heard an unconfirmed rumor that Barak Fitzgerald Obama once watched a football game at a Catholic school about a mile down the road from a satelite campus of Bob Jones University.

Hmmmmmmmmmm!
True. Unless you think it is not fair to get paid less for doing the same job
based on your gender.


http://www.ncpa.org/pd/economy/pd050900g.html">Good thing that doesn't happen.
Posted by StanW
March 4, 2008 1:35 PM |

Yes, I heard that rumor and I do believe that Louis Farrakhan was the coach of that team. I also heard a rumor that Barack Delano Obama tried out for waterboy but was rejected for being an apostate.
"Well we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 12:12 PM |"

I'd just like to say that I agree that you're a stupid, sexist jerk.
What's that smell?
I do believe that there is a fowl odor in the air. Smells like......burning brain cells. Must be a troll nearby.
The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - http://thunderrun.blogspot.com...ce-for-03042008.html"> Web Reconnaissance for 03/04/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.
Smells like......burning brain cells. Must be a troll nearby.

Posted by NORSEMAN March 4, 2008 1:51 PM


Can't be. Where would a troll get anything to burn???
Where would a troll get anything to burn???

Posted by StanW
March 4, 2008 2:08 PM |

From their dealers?
Can't be. Where would a troll get anything to burn???

Posted by StanW
March 4, 2008 2:08 PM |

Well, even a slug has a brain. A troll does not have much of a brain but there are probably one or two cells in that empty cavern that can burn. It happens when they try to think. Every time a troll tries to think, it is like touching two hot electrical wires together. They spark and burn, causing that nasty smell.
"The marketplace of ideas rewards original ideas and original thinkers and I think having a niche is very important."

Spoken like a true conservative.

A liberal would have said, "To be a good blogger you need to be just like (someone from the right) only fair and better."
In all fairness, I don't think Pamela of Atlas Shrugged is giving due weight to the whole "right wing babe," T&A factor. I think it's a bit disingenuous to downplay the plain fact of "cleavage power." She flaunts it constantly on her vlogs. I don't see it much differently than Obama Girl or Ron Paul girl (granted, the last two are COMPLETELY devoid of anything but nice measurements). It's the same reason for all those Conservative T-shirt adverts with minimum D-cup babes sporting the goods. Sure you can find porn on the Internet instead of gawking at Pamela et al, but I don't think that means the looks factor is neglible or meaningless as far as her popularity. Conservative guys want "babes" on our side. ("She's hot AND conservative, see??")

Now Michelle Malkin, on the other hand, is also a very lovely lady but I read Michelle because she has proven herself INDISPENSABLE. She has become what the local newspaper is for so many folks--a critical part of the morning prep for the day. I have never seen Michelle in anything but modest wear (and I appreciate that!) but I don't need to "see" her. She's simply the best at what she does. In sum, she is popular for her demonstrated blogging prowess, not her cup size.

Another lady blogger that I think blows away the fem blogger "gap" idea (well, she's a reporter, really) is Claudia Rosett.
And yes, I know in this very post Michelle basically supports using your looks to grab attention; I'm just saying that she doesn't need it in her case because her work has its own attractive power.
Racist troll alert. Frankie, you email any of my posts to Hawkins lately? Be thankful the hushmail people can't be bought, yet.
Oh by the way... I further posted to this over on my own site, about how (usually liberal) male bloggers and commenters get mouthy and call us c*nts. So what do you think happened? Yup, I got called a c*nt for my trouble. Such originality.

Sticks and stoners, man.

RG
What kind of cowardly punk would send (threatening) hate-mail to a woman? Ugh. Their parent(s) obviously did a very poor job in raising them.
Posted by 2008mar20tha08
March 4, 2008 3:03 PM |

Don't worry...I don't think there's enough bug spray in the world to do you in -and they banned DDT...
I got called a c*nt for my trouble. Such originality.
Sticks and stoners, man.
RG
Posted by RightGirl
March 4, 2008 3:13 PM |

No worries RG. Just be glad these morons are not Muslim men. You would probably get stoned to death or get your head chopped off for your trouble. Fortunately they are just sexually frustrated ignoramus liberal pansies that couldn't find their ass with both hands. Big, tough characters that would never have the courage to call you that to your face. They hide in their mom's basement and call you a c*nt to get off. Pitiful souls to say the least.

only your death threats.

Posted by 2008mar20tha08 March 4, 2008 3:03 PM


FWankie, do you think that anyone here cares enough about you to want you dead? I can think of no greater punishment for you than you having to live with yourself for the rest of your life.

And I have yet to see any of these "death threats". Oh, sorry, my mistake. Simply disagreeing with your pathetic far-left positions is hate-speech, denies you your 1st Amendment rights, and means we want you dead... Right?

I hope they have a good picture of you in the dictionary next to the word PATHETIC!
Their parent(s) obviously did a very poor job in raising them.


Don't you mean their non-specific childhood caretakers of undetermined gender and sexual preference did a very poor job in raising them?
True. Unless you think it is not fair to get paid less for doing the same job based on your gender.
Good thing that doesn't happen.


au contra ire:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_pay_for_women">Pay differentials

But you'd probably know that if you talked to real women and not just that vinyl doll that you must inflate, mighty!

But you'd probably know that if you talked to real women and not just that vinyl doll that you must inflate, mighty!

Posted by toddl March 4, 2008 3:43 PM


No matter how much data we present that shows this discredited idea for the farce that it is, there will always be some pathetic liberal hack that will pull it up and site it.

Why don't you answer the questions I asked, ToddlER??
And then you have the gall to call me sexist!
Posted by StanW


Oh stan you're little word traps are a little endearing, but in the end senseless.
au contra ire:


Once again, http://www.ncpa.org/pd/economy/pd050900g.html">Good. Thing. That. Doesn't. Happen.

(You might try clicking the link this time.)

Pay differentials


Oh, brilliant. Using Wikipedia as a source.

God you're dumb.

But you'd probably know that if you talked to real women and not just that vinyl doll that you must inflate, mighty!


Hmmm.

Wasn't it only a few days ago that you were chastising me for flaming you and using "childish" insults?

Seems you're a bit of a hypocrite, Toddler (as if we didn't already know).
Stanley, dear, is this your way of saying you wish to have those death threats sent to you - again.

Posted by 2008mar20tha08 March 4, 2008 3:48 PM


I would take a death threat from a worthless panty-waste like you with as much importance and seriousness as I do a 1975 calendar!
Why don't you answer the questions I asked, ToddlER??

I don't much care for people that call others names. They tend to self-marginalize..........

I'd just like to say that I agree that you're a stupid, sexist jerk.
Posted by n_obrain


Ooooo- the ugly right wing hate machine rears its ugly head. Thought only liberals spewed hate.
Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 3:43 PM |

a wikipedia link does not constitute an argument...
B_Hussein_Obama - You're wasting you're time. If he was able to read, he would have seen that his own source refuted his claim, except in the case of prior generations.

Even then, of course, the majority of the reason women were paid less was the types of jobs they took to be able to keep up the home as well.
Once again, Good. Thing. That. Doesn't. Happen.

Oh so you believe a right wing think tank. Swell. Now back to your dorm room.

Like no one uses Wikipedia. Sorry mighty, try the real world. I stand. By. My. Original. Assertion.

Wasn't it only a few days ago that you were chastising me for flaming you and using "childish" insults?

You and stan, I'll make an exception for. May have to put you in the time out room with stan.
a wikipedia link does not constitute an argument...
Posted by simulacre


Sorry. There didn't seem to be any standards here.
Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 3:52 PM |

Were you born stupid, or is this the result of sever cranial trauma, possibly cranial-rectal inversion?
Of those 5, Michelle Malkin is probably the least useful in terms of actual politics, as opposed to campaigns. She's entertaining, but Rush does her schtick better.
Oh so you believe a right wing think tank.


And you believe Wikipedia. What's your point?

Like no one uses Wikipedia.


Uh, no son, no one uses Wikipedia. It's an utterly unreliable source. Any information cited there can change from day to day, or even hour to hour.

If you really think citing Wikipedia proves anything, I have a bridge to sell you.

You and stan, I'll make an exception for.


Translation: Yes, I am a hypocrite.
Posted by mrb
March 4, 2008 4:03 PM |

As if anyone ever cared what a liberal pretending to be a conservative thinks.
Sorry. There didn't seem to be any standards here.

Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 4:00 PM |

Well there are and Wiki doesn't come close, At least the 'Right-Wing Think Tank' actually has verifiable data and links to said data. And the data can't be edited by literally anyone.
As if anyone ever cared what a liberal pretending to be a conservative thinks.
Posted by B_Hussein_Obama


As if anyone cared what you think.
If you really think citing Wikipedia proves anything, I have a bridge to sell you.

If you believe everything you read at a right wing think tank, I'll see your bridge and raise you a beach front home in Kansas.
As if anyone cared what you think.

Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 4:11 PM |

I care what mighty/bho thinks, and so do quite a few others here. Guess that makes you an idiot.
LOL...hey BJ, you been sipping on the brandy to drown your sorrows about Favre retiring today?

Posted by NORSEMAN
March 4, 2008 1:17 PM


Come on now, that hurts. I'm a Viking fan stuck here in cheeseland. I was grinning from ear to ear when I heard that news on my way in to the office this morning. Bad Packer days are some of the funnest days of the year for me.

Now our dear friend bthewolf might be crying in his beer today.
Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 4:13 PM |

Care to prove them wrong? And use real data, like from the Census and the Dept of Labor.
"As if anyone ever cared what a liberal pretending to be a conservative thinks.

Posted by B_Hussein_Obama
March 4, 2008 4:05 PM"

Evidently you do. You took the time to reply.
If you believe everything you read at a right wing think tank, I'll see your bridge and raise you a beach front home in Kansas.

Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 4:13 PM


You're confusing "right wing think tank" with "algore" if you're talking about beach front property in Kansas.
If you believe everything you read at a right wing think tank


If you'd care to cite some reputable links that refute mine, you go right ahead.

I'll wait right here.
Now our dear friend bthewolf might be crying in his beer today.

Posted by bjlillo
March 4, 2008 4:17 PM |

If I drank beer I would be, but this might call for some Cuervo Gold.
If women are truly doing the same job that men do for 75% of the price, why wouldn't greedy business owners be snatching them up like they do illegal aliens? It would only be good business.

If not, there must be some other reason for them not making as much money...hmm, what could it be?
Sex differences in pay:

The variance between the average pay of men and womyn has little or nothing to do with sexism, institutional or otherwise. It is related to:
1) Child rearing; and
2) Career field chosen.

Short answer, a PhD male or female OR a janitor, male or female, with "x" number of years employment RECEIVE THE SAME PAY.The statistical differences emerge because average pay is measured by age, not years of experience, in part. A 40 year old man may have 15-22 years of work history, a 40 year old woman, may have taken time out to have 1-2 children, significantly reducing her work experience and hence REDUCING her pay. Also, womyn tend to cluster in lower-paid professions, nursing, child care and the like, pulling the AVERAGE salary down. once you account for work experience and career choices, the pay differential DISAPPEARS. Please do not bring this "myth" up again.

Real World example: My alma mater "discovered", thru sociological research, "institutional sexism", in that male and female professors differed in compensation. The result was many editorials and a commitment to end sexism, UNTIL the Economics Department pointed out, that a PhD with 5 years teaching made the same IRRESPECTIVE of sex. The pay differential was created by the fact that more men were in the Medical School and the Department(s) of Engineering(various)-positions were 6 figure positions went unfilled because my alma mater did not offer enough money for professors, supposedly- and that womyn were more likely to be found in Home Economics and English. These latter departments did not pay as much as the "hard sciences" and consequently pulled the female average down.

Bottom-line: In the US equal work gets you equal pay.
Posted by NORSEMAN
March 4, 2008 1:17 PM

Posted by bjlillo
March 4, 2008 4:17 PM |

Oh yeah and tell me again how many Superbowls the Viqueens have been in! LOL :D
Their boobs. They spend all day playing with them instead of working. Wouldn't you if you had some?
Seriously toddl, did you read the wiki article? States both sides of the issue with no clear indication of right or wrong or where the spin came in.

the right wing think tank study has measurable statistics and includes the raw data...

I happen to agree with you that Wiki is a great resource, and serves as a fantastic place to start familiarizing yourself with an issue. once you gain a requisite understanding, the footnotes provide ample reading and research material to bolster your argument and that is usually accredited sources that could be used to further your argument.

Wiki's drawback (as stated above) is that it can be updated by *anyone* with a computer and internet connection. Because of potential data integrity issues, you have to recognize that you can never use it as a citation. You can go to the source material as footnoted in wiki and use that info, but a wiki post by itself is virtually worthless...
Posted by bthewolf
March 4, 2008 4:28 PM


That's just like a Packer fan to dwell on the past. I'm looking towards a future of hope, change, and Adrian Peterson breaking the all-time rushing record.
As if anyone ever cared what a liberal pretending to be a conservative thinks.
Posted by B_Hussein_Obama

As if anyone cared what you think.

Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 4:11 PM


Translation: I know you are, but what am I?

Good lord, is that the best you can come up with? "Schoolyard burns?"
You know, I don't think you are a troll, but you are certainly pretty damned clueless.

TR

Since others are playing with Frankie the prison punk, I'll pile on too...

Stanley, dear, is this your way of saying you wish to have those death threats sent to you - again.


Oh look. Frankie is threatening to send yet more harrassing email. Naaah. He's not that stupid. I would bet he's already gotten a nastygram from his email service advicing him to stop the email based harrassment.

And a query for those so challenged - why can no one spell the word "cunt"?


It's called decency and decorum, Frankie..concepts that a child like you has yet to grasp. Google it.

Does anyone at this point still believe Frankie's fairy tale (pun intended) about being a woman? Seriously?

TR


Posted by bjlillo
March 4, 2008 4:27 PM |

Posted by JFKY
March 4, 2008 4:28 PM |

Thank you.
Posted by bjlillo
March 4, 2008 4:34 PM |

Dwell in the past, huh, at least it proves I'm not a fair weather fan! LOL

As far as it goes it's been a good run and the next couple of years will likely be rough, but hey Rogers isn't too bad and now he'll get a shot. He's got some great kids to work with so maybe they'll be more like the Vikes than the Lions!
Actually, part of the reason the whole "equal pay" thing is so misleading is that, once you get beyond minimum wage and union jobs, people are free to negotiate their compensation packages.

Many women have been socialized to believe that discussion of money matters is not acceptable, so they are at a disadvantage when negotiating. (this particular problem can be overcome, but I've never seen any feminist group offer any help in this regard--they're too busy bitching about a lack of equal pay) In addition, many women place more value on non-monetary forms of compensation, whether it is PTO, flex hours, health/child care/other benefits.

Personally, I have no sympathy for a professional woman who complains about a lack of equal pay. She just needs to learn to negotiate better. It would be awesome if feminists would focus on this for a change and actually help people rather than constantly crying about being victims.

My condolences, bthewolf, I too will miss Mr. Favre's heroics despite my not being a true Packer's fan.
Take solace in the fact that you aren't a Dolphins fan; those poor guys are going to be wallowing in misery for a long time to come.
Take solace in the fact that you aren't a Dolphins fan; those poor guys are going to be wallowing in misery for a long time to come.

Posted by Good_Ol_Boy
March 4, 2008 4:55 PM |

Eh, It's been a long time coming and he had a HELL of a ride, so I've got no complaints. And yeah being a Dolphins fan is almost as bad as being Browns fan.
Retire in peace, Brett Favre.

Please, don't try a movie career...that scene in "Something about Mary" was just way too painful to watch.
Good lord, is that the best you can come up with? "Schoolyard burns?"
You know, I don't think you are a troll, but you are certainly pretty damned clueless.
TR


Sheesh. This is just like an NBA game: the second guy retaliating gets called for the foul. You did read what he wrote that I reacted to, didn't you?

Anyway you were right these schoolyard taunts really don't advance the discussion.

Retire in peace, Brett Favre.

Anybody know what he plans to do in retirement? After all those years immersed in football, then to quit cold turkey!

Hope he doesn't decide to go to the Arena League!
Posted by Good_Ol_Boy
March 4, 2008 4:55 PM |


not true! The Tuna's going to...has changed that whole program and he'll have them turned around in no time! He's been the most active out of all teams in this year's free agency draft!

Anybody know what he plans to do in retirement? After all those years immersed in football, then to quit cold turkey!

Hope he doesn't decide to go to the Arena League!

Posted by toddl
March 4, 2008 5:16 PM


He likes to putt around on his tractor in Mississippi. He's probably got some Vicodin lying around to take his pain away as well.
He's probably got some Vicodin lying around to take his pain away as well.

Posted by bjlillo
March 4, 2008 5:36 PM |

Proof please! LOL, sorry that hasn't been an issue for a long time!
This is ridiculous. Women get paid less because they're intellectually inferior. They have brains a third the size of us. It's science.
Posted by mrb
March 4, 2008 5:42 PM |

I hope that was sarcasm, otherwise you're in for an ass whoopin.
This is ridiculous. Women get paid less because they're intellectually inferior. They have brains a third the size of us. It's science.

Posted by mrb
March 4, 2008 5:42 PM


Your boobs answer was much more relevant I believe.
Proof please! LOL, sorry that hasn't been an issue for a long time!

Posted by bthewolf
March 4, 2008 5:41 PM


Well, who was pushing hardest for Koren Robinson to be brought in? Brett Favre. I'm pretty sure he needed a drinking buddy. He certainly didn't need another receiver with Driver, Jones, and that dude they drafted two years ago whose name I'm forgetting, #85...
It would be awesome if feminists would focus on this for a change and actually help people rather than constantly crying about being victims.


Feminist groups will never help women become more self-sufficient. If women didn't consider themselves victims, they wouldn't think they need feminist groups. And that would diminish their power.
"I hope that was sarcasm, otherwise you're in for an ass whoopin.

Posted by bthewolf
March 4, 2008 5:45 PM"

What, no Ron Burgundy fans here?
As you request, Fridge. My magnanimity knows no bounds.

And, Fridge, you know as little about decency as you do about women.
here is the problem: the NUMBER of women who can, and do, speak intelligently on cultural and political matters are very few. Men are more outspoken, while the number of air headed women who think only about their personal problems or who is on Dancing with the Stars is legion.

That makes it hard for me to take a woman seriously until I have seen her writing for a while.
What, no Ron Burgundy fans here?

Posted by mrb
March 4, 2008 6:02 PM |

Sorry, only I've onley seen it once!
What, no Ron Burgundy fans here?

Posted by mrb
March 4, 2008 6:02 PM |

Sorry, only I've only seen it once!
Posted by 2008mar08tha008
March 4, 2008 6:49 PM |

Ahh is the marthtwat offended? Tough shit!
kyle8 - there's actually no other way to put this. You are an asshole.



And you are a cyber-trespasser with no right to be here. I'll take Kye8 over you any time.

TR
"And you are a cyber-trespasser with no right to be here."

That made me chuckle. Are we going to throw him/her in cyber jail?
Posted by 2008mar08tha008
March 4, 2008 6:49 PM |

Frankie, you were the "woman" in your "relationship" with your "partner", correct? You still emailing mine and Trench's and Stan's posts to Hawkins? You do realize I'll find someone with your personal information who can be bought, don't you?
But then, you're a racist misogynist.

Posted by 2008mar08tha008
March 4, 2008 7:46 PM |

And your proof of this what, marthtwat?
Posted by 2008mar08tha008
March 4, 2008 7:52 PM |

That's all you've got marthtwat? Pretty pathetic, even for you.
Also Frankie, you admitted above posting death threats via email to another poster here. Since I have your email address, I guess I can do a little cut and paste and send that on in to Hushmail.
your lies lack imagination.

Posted by 2008mar08tha008
March 4, 2008 8:19 PM |

This coming from marthtwat the "Now that's funny!' troll, oh the irony.
Please Hussein, his name is Frankie. Frankie the Bottom, the only liberal joke larger than Wino and crthns put together.
Posted by Dick_Nixon
March 4, 2008 8:27 PM |

I know but marthtwat is just too easy to poke fun at, so why not enjoy it's stay?!
That made me chuckle. Are we going to throw him/her in cyber jail?

Posted by mrb
March 4, 2008 7:32 PM
You are familiar with this clown's history, right? Repeatedly returning to a site you have been banned from is "cyber-tresspassing". It's also a violation of the ToS of every reputable ISP out there as it's a form of harrassment and cyber-stalking. No we can't throw him in cyber-jail, but if and when we get an ID on this clown he stands a very real chance of getting his IP service pulled.


But then, you're a racist misogynist.

Posted by 2008mar08tha008
March 4, 2008 7:46 PM


Coming from an anti-white bigot (probably a self-hating one) that's pretty funny.
A clue for you, little boy...with one exception only one person here has ever made such a claim in regards to me. What does that tell you?

BTW you threatned to email me harrassing messages again. I have not gotten anything as of five minutes ago. Looks like you aren't that stupid after all.....and that Hushmail did in fact check your foolish harrassment.

TR




Dick_Nixon:
BTW, since Hawkins has banned you repeatedly, you think I care what you tell him?


Hehehe...yeah when I saw that Frankie the prison punk CC'd Hawkins in on a couple of his harrassing messages (in particular the one in which he made a false complaint in regards to me to Yahoo mail...which nothing has come of BT...) I had to laugh out loud. Does he REALLY think that given the trouble this clown has caused here and the a-- he makes of himself on a daily basis that Hawkins will read his email, let alone take anything he says seriously?
It's amazing in it's stupidity.

TR
Oops...I messed that one up. The paragraph in my 835 message sould read as follows:

"Coming from an anti-white bigot (probably a self-hating one) that's pretty funny.
A clue for you, little boy...with the exception of one person The only people who have made such accusations against me have been known trolls. What does that tell you?"

TR

Posted by trenchraider
March 4, 2008 8:46 PM |

Check out the comments on your blog
Thanks for the heads up. I didn't know I had a message from Huck there. I have not updated that thing in months and regard it as being defunct. I've been thinking of deleting it.

TR
Posted by trenchraider
March 4, 2008 9:17 PM |

Well since I don't have your email, and I'm not giving mine to marthtwat!
gotta laugh when you try to talk 'legal'


what can I say? Call it a habit from a decade and a half of writing reports saying things like this" "At 1800 during a routine 30 minute security check, I did observe Offender Frankie engaging in anal sodomy as the passive partner. Said offender did cease this act upon noticing my presence."

Well since I don't have your email, and I'm not giving mine to marthtwat!


My email is no secret. Feel free to drop me a line at trench_raider@yahoo.com if you want to chat. I'm more than willing to exchange emails with any non-troll member of this forum.

TR


I'm not sure what you what to discuss via email, but I'll take your invitation under advisement.


But let me make this quite clear. I regard any email communications recieved from you to be harrassment and stalking as I have warned you repeatedly not to contact me and will sperately report any email I recieve from you to whatever email service that is the source of said harrassment.



You do realize, Trench, that your anger and antipathy are all that give Murtha's life meaning, right? And that, for that reason, it will never leave you alone, right? Congratulations, it seems you have your own cyber-tapeworm.
You are one confused nut case.

Posted by 2008mar08tha008
March 4, 2008 10:44 PM |

You are a gay man that impersonates a woman on the Internet. Not that anything is wrong with that.
Congratulations, it seems you have your own cyber-tapeworm.

Posted by Grognard
March 4, 2008 10:29 PM


Hehe...I've dealt with far worse than Frankie the prison punk, both in the form of 'net trolls and in person. I'll be fine.
TR

Last post of the night..I have a follow up apointment in the AM...hopefully they will take this cast off for good!

You are a gay man that impersonates a woman on the Internet. Not that anything is wrong with that.

Posted by Dick_Nixon
March 4, 2008 10:53 PM


Anyone who thinks Frankie is biologicaly female is deluded. He's transparently not the woman he claims to be. This is not an uncommon thing amongst 'net trolls. Acording to this paragraph from the Wikki on trolling, one of the very first USENET trolls was a gender bender too:

"Prior to DejaNews's archiving of Usenet, accounts of trolling were sketchy, there being little evidence to sort through. After that time, however, the huge archives were available for researchers. Perhaps the earliest (although poorly-documented) case is the 1982-83 saga of Alex and Joan from the CompuServe forums. Lindsy Van Gelder, a reporter for Ms. magazine, documented the incident in 1985 in an article for her publication. Alex (in real life, a shy 50-year-old male psychiatrist from New York) pretended to be a highly bombastic, anti-religious, post-car-accident, wheelchair-bound, mute woman named Joan, "in order to better relate to his female patients." This went on for two years, and Joan had become a hugely detailed character, with an array of emotional relationships. These only began to fall apart after Joan coaxed an online friend of hers into an affair with Alex."

Why Frankie has chosen a female persona is anyone's guess. But his being a real life fag (yes, I said fag) is as good a theory as any. In any event this seems to square with what some have said he claimed under his original Frankie account.

'night all. Wish me luck.

TR

Let me quickly point out that I saw some serious strategic errors above, gentlemen. While Wikipedia is generally crap, it is nonetheless popular and influential crap. We are failing in our duty as responsible adults to just dismiss it out of hand without providing backup. Since I just finished the appropriate section of Sowell's book "Economic Facts and Fallacies", I'd like to actually address the Wiki entry cited by one of our rsident trolls above.

To honestly compare the wages earned by men and women, one must first balance all other factors. One must account for differences in years employed, consecutive years employed, job selection, etc. The longer individuals have been in the labor force, the more factors have to be balanced; at a certain point there simply isn't enough data to perform a statistically valid analysis of the individuals that fit into the "everything else being equal" group. After 15 years or so, it's virtually impossible to say anyone is comparable, statistically, to anyone else.

Nevertheless, at early stages of employment it is fairly simple to compare individuals having essentially equal qualifications, time on the job, job preferences, etc. It will no doubt surprise toddl and his ilk (but not any hiring managers, I'll bet) that, based on extensive data on college graduates, 4 to 6 years after graduation and everything else being equal, women earn more than men. Women as a class (in the legal sense) may earn less than men as a class, but that, from a logical standpoint, is almost exactly like saying chocolate is used more than tabasco. To be honest, one must be much more specific than merely comparing "women" to "men".

Pamela has my utmost respect. I dont think there's anyone in the blogosphere who does interviews as profound and educational as Pamela does.

Be it Bat Ye'or or ProphetOfDoom.net or John Bolton, I'm so impressed that Pamela has been able to get access to such folks.


To talk about her looks is to disrepect her best asset... her mind and the product of it.

While Wikipedia is generally crap, it is nonetheless popular and influential crap. We are failing in our duty as responsible adults to just dismiss it out of hand without providing backup.


We provided backup. I stated precisely why Wikipedia is crap AND I provided a link that contradicted the information therein. Others also did the same.

I fail to see how we are "failing our duty" here.
The problem, samurai, is that NCPA links, no matter how solid, may be discounted as "partisan" just as quickly as MM or PfAW links. I'll throw this onto my "troll bullet" to do list: to find and excerpt the study Sowell cited.
You must register, be approved and log in to post comments.

ad banner for Justice Sotomayor
© Copyright 2001-2009 John Hawkins
eXTReMe Tracker