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November 05, 2007
John Hawkins Rooting For An Economic Collapse In America At The Daily Kos

After spending half her diary comparing America to Nazi Germany, Daily Kos diarist Granny Doc openly roots for an "economic meltdown" in America,

The parallels are undeniable, and I see only one solution if America, The Grand Experiment, is to survive.

I want to stand by and watch it all blow up.

I want the dollar to plunge to worthless paper.

I want the stock market to implode.

I want the economy to plunge into chaos.

I want the Chinese to call in all the debt they hold.

I want an economic meltdown of such staggering proportion that even that idiot on Bill Moyer's Journal who does not know the difference between a State Constitution and the United States Constitution, is forced to look around in mild surprise and wonder what the hell happened.

Only total economic destruction will get the attention of the fools.

I want every single idiot who doesn't think politics is any of their concern to be gob smacked by the terror of losing it all. I want a wake up call of such stunning proportion that a generation will slip from the stage before any American citizen votes on the basis of looks, or, charm, or cant - before any claim of "Free Trade" is accepted as uninteresting. Before any citizen thinks it's cute, or hep, or stylish, to be distainful of politics.

I want every politician who places getting elected ahead of protecting the Constitution to find their corporate masters have lost interest in their little fiefdom as economic collapse makes their petty posturing even more pathetic.

I want a culture war against greed to emerge from the rubble, and the blyth acceptance of what is, in favor of the hard work of what could be to become so passe that our grandchildren will forever wonder what we were thinking.

I want every bamboozled, bubble headed, super-star chasing, reality show afficianado thrown off the island, and forced to swim in the shark infested waters of what their indifference has wrought.

And I want it now, before this inept, self-serving Congress allows the Facists one more opportunity to fully convert this from the United States of America, into the 4th Reich.

Now, that's patriotism, isn't it? Comparing America to Nazi Germany and then rooting for "total economic destruction" in our country. Granny Doc better be careful. If she keeps writing posts like this, even someone as influential as Kos won't be able to get her a job any better than Assistant Secretary for Tax Policy in the Treasury Department of a future Clinton Administration.

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Comments (40)
What a retard, although there are two comments I agree with:
"Only total economic destruction will get the attention of the fools."
Except this guy is one of the fools, and total economic destruction is exactly what the greenies would be heading for if they had their way

"I want every bamboozled, bubble headed, super-star chasing, reality show afficianado thrown off the island, and forced to swim in the shark infested waters of what their indifference has wrought."
I don't know about the indifference or bamboozled parts but I am pretty damn sick of reality TV and all its vacuous retardation.
So "Granny", you want everyone to lose their jobs, default on their home and car loans, lose the ability to feed their families, lose their investment and retirement accounts, lose their ability to get medical care and cease feeding millions of people worldwide who depend on us and why exactly?

To feed your gluttonous appetite of self-righteousness concerning opression which isn't happening.

Well, this little screed would explain the economic policies of the Democrats 87D
Joking aside, here is the face of evil, and perhaps the clearest refutation of indictments of conservatives as "greedy" or "selfish". What the author is calling for is pain, misery, and suffering for millions of people. Not as necessary evil, or even as a means to satisfy some personal agenda, but as an end in itself. Even the most greed and selfish bast**d we can imagine is indifferent to others well-being. But, the author of this piece is actually opposed to it. If there is a hell, Granny Doc has just reserved herself a very special place in it.
Funny, radical Islam has a very similar goal.
There is a thread of truth in the Granny comments.

However unlikely, these events would provide support for her hatred and socialist policy support. Without this demise, she just looks like a loon, even to herself.
This was a great post. Most people are too busy with their everyday lives to delve into the strange online world of DailyKOS. The "New Center of the Democrat Party" would repel most of the remaining blue-collar Dems if they were exposed to it.

Posts like these can only spread the word of who their party leaders are listening to these days.

As for Granny Doc?
It might be a question of http://deathby1000papercuts.bl...onomic-meltdown.html">Treason or Dementia except "treason" is so passe on the Left.
One thing I love that this moron threw in there. She (?) says she of for hard working people in the same paragraph condeming "greedy" people. Every time I talk to an out of work, loser, BDS sufferer, I get the title of "greedy necon" because I make a nice living working my butt off to feed and clothe and shelter my family. I guess their idea of working hard is getting up to get your own beer during commercials while watching Jerry Springer.
It's always great to be labeled as a greedy, "ebil" person because I work hard and think I ought to have some rights to enjoy the fruits of that labor.
I think her tirade can be summarized as follows (which used to apply mainly to the global War on Terror and the War in Iraq):

If it's good for America, it's bad for the democrats. If it's bad for America, it's good for the democrats.

Come to think of it, this statement is (in my opinion) a good summary of everything the democrats stand for.
And once the culture of greed is dead, we can all work with joy on the collective farms and in the collective factories. Oh happy day! Except for me, of course, I'll be one of the elite running everything because, you know, you still need people running things.
/moonbat
Hmmmm. Ok, so in Granny Doc's bizarro-world view, the only way to save America is to completely destroy it? See, this is a perfect example of why America-hating socialist liberals should NEVER comment on economics.

Anywhoo, do y'all think that she's actually contemplated the pragmatic end results of what she is advocating? The needless suffering? The violent, apocalyptic chaos that would rule the streets? The very real Darwinist, survival of the fittest culture that would certainly arise?
Or is this just another bitter moonbat engaging in some provocative schadenfreude against evil old Amerikkka?
Remember that the best way communists believe will allow them to usher in communist rule is the collapse of a society. As history proves, stable economies are never going to provide a breeding ground for enough radical lunatics. Break the economy however, and the door to every kind of totalitarian rule - communism, socialism (fascism), and so on - is suddenly wide open....
And here is one of those pathetic liberal jerks who should end up cuaght in the middle of no where and no one to depent on to give this fool the time of day
Or is this just another bitter moonbat engaging in some provocative schadenfreude against evil old Amerikkka?

Posted by Good_Ol_Boy November 5, 2007 10:49 AM


Granny has not thought this through (Imagine my Surprise!). After all, Liberals are brave, generous, and kind *ONLY* when it costs them nothing.

Granny may, MAY, truly believe what she says, and she may want it to happen just that way. But were it to happen, she WILL be the first to complain that she has no electricity or running water, that the streets are unsafe, that he food is running out, and that her government assistance checks have been delayed.

Liberals - The gift that keeps on whining!
What's funny is should the economic collapse that Granny Doc so clearly craves actually happen it would not give rise to her socialistic agenda. Socialism can only thrive in a very narrow economic band. An economy as strong as the US has can possibly be constrained and controlled until you force socialism on it, but if the collapse does come, people are going to be scrambling just to feed themselves and the government won't have the tax revenue to provide the current entitlements let alone the boatload of new ones that Granny Doc clearly believes would be immeidately offered.

Economic illteracy at its finest.
Well if Granny Doc gets his/her wish then this entire country will become a 'survival of the fittest' zone. We'll just see how many liberals survive the first week compared to all of us hard-working, hunting, fishing, camping conservatives.
Remember that the best way communists believe will allow them to usher in communist rule is the collapse of a society. As history proves, stable economies are never going to provide a breeding ground for enough radical lunatics. Break the economy however, and the door to every kind of totalitarian rule - communism, socialism (fascism), and so on - is suddenly wide open....

Posted by AlexinCT
November 5, 2007 10:52 AM |



Sure, they believe that Alex, but what they don't realize is that a collapsed economy with no money in it as Granny wants would only breed clanism, tribalism, and anarchy. We'd all be thrown back on barter and theft in a hurry and hoarding would be the rule of the day. Of course the liberals think that they can just order the military to seize goods, but we'd end up like Tanzania if they tried. Profit drives progress and it also drives people to work. Take away the incentive to work, and there are no goods to purchase. Liberals forget this.
Posted by mvargus November 5, 2007 11:12 AM

You are assuming they are intelligent enough to look past the agenda and to be smart enough to realize the problems accompanying such an economic collapse. If they are stupid enough to buy into any of these failed collective ideologies - despite the mountains of evidence that they are oppressive, unsustainable, and regressive - why do you think she would realize they would be left running a hell hole where the evolutionary logic of "survival of the fittest" would be front & center? Or worse, why would she care since the agenda is to get power, and all else be damned because they are deluded that they can make it work. all we will get is a society where everyone shares in the misery equally, but then again, that is what this kind liberal thrive on.
"Take away the incentive to work, and there are no goods to purchase. Liberals forget this." -- by mvargus

I don't think they forget anything. I don't think they ever learned in the first place.


We'll just see how many liberals survive the first week compared to all of us hard-working, hunting, fishing, camping conservatives.


My thoughts precisely, Craig! I know for a fact that I can provide sustenance for my family without aid; I hunt, I fish and I have a better than average familiarity with cultivating my own vegetables. It's the city-dwellers, which I assume (given her naive notions) would include Granny Doc, who would suffer the most horribly if this nightmarish vision were to come to pass.
That's a bizarre line of thinking.
The comments, as expected, are quite funny. And of course there's the usual harping about running off to Canada (what's up with that!) although seems Canada isn't quite so attractive anymore:

"Granny, Canada is not safe anymore, or Mexico. Not with , to the North a right winger leader, and Mounties with tasers"

That's some funny stuff.

The alternative now is they're talking of taking refuge on Indian reservations. Sure, they'd be welcome and out of reach there.
I see the filter on that side of the gene pool is clogged again.
I wouldn't give the author too much benefit of the doubt for stupidity. She seems to understand quite clearly what she's asking for. She seems to have considered the implications at length. At risk seeming critical, I think sometimes good people are all too willing to refuse to recognize genuine malice because they can't understand it.
I wouldn't give the author too much benefit of the doubt for stupidity. She seems to understand quite clearly what she's asking for. She seems to have considered the implications at length. At risk seeming critical, I think sometimes good people are all too willing to refuse to recognize genuine malice because they can't understand it.

Posted by Bill_Dalasio
November 5, 2007 12:06 PM |



Bill, I think you've put the real issue I have with liberalism in a single paragraph.

They simply refuse to acknowledge any negative emotion or trait in humanity at large.

they are happy to claim that a single person, or a group of people are wrong headed or greedy, but they refuse to accept the possibility that humans are naturally self-interested, selfish, greedy individuals who will gladly throw another under a bus if its to their advantage. They seem to believe that without the fear of punishment people will just "be nice" to everyone else, adn that talk about possible punishments can be a deterent.

And I don't know how to break them out of such a fantasy. Logic, reason and history has no effect becaues they always wnat to believe that this time, somehow, things will be different.
"Take away the incentive to work, and there are no goods to purchase. Liberals forget this." -- by mvargus

I don't think they forget anything. I don't think they ever learned in the first place.




Posted by jules
November 5, 2007 11:23 AM |



Point to you Jules. Since real history and economics are not taught, its definitely true that most liberals have no clue how and why goods and services are provided. I'd blame Marx and his theories, but its clear that much more than just Marx's ravings now drive this blind faith behind communal economies.

I think part of the goal of the old communist movement which tried to break down family and clan ties so that people would look to government did work, but that those who created that goal did not see the dangerous void which would be left behind. I've noticed that the people who push the liberal line the hardest are also those who are least tied to family and church, and who most need something to believe in. Something greater than themselves to belong to. Unfortunately I think deep down they know that its almost impossible to replace family, so they want the government to make them a new family consisting of the rest of the world.

Its not really logical, but I can rationalize no other reason they are so militant about attacking the US to force change rather than moving someplace and creating their utopia. If they truly believed it would work, you'd expect them to go out and make it happen rather than aggitate and try to force everyone else to do it for them.
Posted by mvargus
November 5, 2007 12:13 PM

But, mvargus, I think we're doing sort of the same thing here. Only in a much more extreme example. Sorry, I'm not seeing anything so innocent as a "self-interested, selfish, greedy individuals who will gladly throw another under a bus if its to their advantage", like the rest of you. What I'm seeing is far, far, worse. I'm seeing someone who would throw their own Siamese twin under the bus, knowing full well she's signing her own death warrant. Just for the damage she can cause the other.
Ahh... but the Cities (the bastions of the Elitist Progressives and their mindless Welfare slaves) will be the ones to feel the pain of economic collapse the most.

Civility will remain in outlying rural communities while the inner-cities dissolve into bloody chaos.
Posted by mvargus November 5, 2007 11:12 AM

You are assuming they are intelligent enough to look past the agenda and to be smart enough to realize the problems accompanying such an economic collapse. If they are stupid enough to buy into any of these failed collective ideologies - despite the mountains of evidence that they are oppressive, unsustainable, and regressive - why do you think she would realize they would be left running a hell hole where the evolutionary logic of "survival of the fittest" would be front & center? Or worse, why would she care since the agenda is to get power, and all else be damned because they are deluded that they can make it work. all we will get is a society where everyone shares in the misery equally, but then again, that is what this kind liberal thrive on.

Posted by AlexinCT
November 5, 2007 11:22 AM |



they have to have some intelligence or the whole philosophy of communism wouldn't have a chance to fit into their brain. Its a little bit complex. Ever notice that the truly down-trodden people in the ghettoes of the US don't bother with pushing communism or socialism, or any other ism? You have to have time and exposure to believe in one of these government disasters.

As for the mountains of evidence. The big problem there is the bloody "self-esteem" movement and its feel good philosophies. Liberals seem to believe that everyone is good at heart and only has thoughts of how to help everyone else, or at least that somehow you can mandate that they all think that way. If they had been put into a "survival of the fittest" situation back in 1st grade, they might actually understand that 90+% of the population will happily step on #2, #3, #4 and #400 while watching out for #1. Instead they expect us to give flowers to people who would never lift a finger for us, unless it would be to their advantage, and they wonder why the barbarians laugh at us.

We need to teach people that lack of open aggresion doesn't mean that a person isn't dangerous. And that all humans are inherently dangerous, greedy, and exremely uncaring of others. Rather than this "everyone just needs to smoke 200 reefers and feel the groovy love" that liberals seem to pipe into their brains.
But, mvargus, I think we're doing sort of the same thing here. Only in a much more extreme example. Sorry, I'm not seeing anything so innocent as a "self-interested, selfish, greedy individuals who will gladly throw another under a bus if its to their advantage", like the rest of you. What I'm seeing is far, far, worse. I'm seeing someone who would throw their own Siamese twin under the bus, knowing full well she's signing her own death warrant. Just for the damage she can cause the other.

Posted by Bill_Dalasio
November 5, 2007 12:24 PM |


um? do you mean that this Granny Doc is indicating that she'll willfully throw her siamese twin? or that the posters and readers of RWN would do it? cause while I think Granny Doc is blind enough to think that she can somehow come to a greater good by commiting such an evil act. I really doubt any of the regular (non-troll) posters here at RWN are that amoral.

But again, it comes down to an understanding of morality and motive. I think most of the conservatives here have either said or heard said "the end is all that matters" from a liberal or from someone describing how liberals tend to act. Its clear that to them only the results matter, not the collateral damage, nor the morality of the path in question. Abortion is a perfect metaphor for this. the end is freedom from the responsibility of being a parent to an unwanted baby. The collateral damage is the unbord and unwanted baby, and the morality is that they have to destroy the future life of this "fetus" in order to acheive their goals. its wrong on so many levels that I cannot describe, but they will defend it because they defend only the results. not the cost or the rightness of it.
um? do you mean that this Granny Doc is indicating that she'll willfully throw her siamese twin? or that the posters and readers of RWN would do it?


Good God! No, mvargus, it's Granny Doc I'm referring to that would throw Siamese twin, not the RWN readership!

What I think we may be guilty of is the same thing we both note liberals do. Namely, turning away and pretending something is more innocent than it is. And I'll suggest that greed and selfishness are much more innocent than pure malice.

Consider your discussion. You suggest that she is amoral and taking an attitude of "the end is all that matters". What if that isn't her motive? What if the means are, in fact, what she relishes?
Sorry for the misformatting. Here:

um? do you mean that this Granny Doc is indicating that she'll willfully throw her siamese twin? or that the posters and readers of RWN would do it?

Good God! No, mvargus, it's Granny Doc I'm referring to that would throw Siamese twin, not the RWN readership!

What I think we may be guilty of is the same thing we both note liberals do. Namely, turning away and pretending something is more innocent than it is. And I'll suggest that greed and selfishness are much more innocent than pure malice.

Consider your discussion. You suggest that she is amoral and taking an attitude of "the end is all that matters". What if that isn't her motive? What if the means are, in fact, what she relishes?

Wild! Just wild!!! How can anyone be so stupid that they do not know that an economic meltdown would affect everyone,everyone, everyone---globally?
Consider your discussion. You suggest that she is amoral and taking an attitude of "the end is all that matters". What if that isn't her motive? What if the means are, in fact, what she relishes?

Posted by Bill_Dalasio
November 5, 2007 1:02 PM |



Fair question Bill, but I think you see a bit more there than I do. Lets go over her "agenda"

I want to stand by and watch it all blow up.

I want the dollar to plunge to worthless paper.

I want the stock market to implode.

I want the economy to plunge into chaos.

I want the Chinese to call in all the debt they hold.


Pretty standard anti-business rant with signs of economic ignorance. Definitely doesn't understand where tax revenues and government spending relate. But this is typical of most communists. They think killing a capitalist economy will instantly turn it communist.


I want an economic meltdown of such staggering proportion that even that idiot on Bill Moyer's Journal who does not know the difference between a State Constitution and the United States Constitution, is forced to look around in mild surprise and wonder what the hell happened. Only total economic destruction will get the attention of the fools.


Ok, signs that Granny doesn't understand economics and politics and how they relate. I truly doubt anyone watching the US economy melt down as she wants will give a moments thought to the constitution. They will be more worried about keeping food on the table and a roof over their heads. She claims to want people to think about the politics, but wants it driven by economics.


I want every single idiot who doesn't think politics is any of their concern to be gob smacked by the terror of losing it all. I want a wake up call of such stunning proportion that a generation will slip from the stage before any American citizen votes on the basis of looks, or, charm, or cant - before any claim of "Free Trade" is accepted as uninteresting. Before any citizen thinks it's cute, or hep, or stylish, to be distainful of politics.


again wants to equate economics with politics and has no clue how they relate. I'd love to have ever liberal and communist out there have to take college level economics courses until they finally understand that you can't make communism work, but its nto going to happen. And the level of disdain this person has for economic realities is frightening.

I want every politician who places getting elected ahead of protecting the Constitution to find their corporate masters have lost interest in their little fiefdom as economic collapse makes their petty posturing even more pathetic.


and here we have the attack on evil big bizness. Completely ignoring the fact that businesses are more disdainful of politics than individuals and would happily ignore congress if it wasn't for the liberals demanding government interference in trade.

I want a culture war against greed to emerge from the rubble, and the blyth acceptance of what is, in favor of the hard work of what could be to become so passe that our grandchildren will forever wonder what we were thinking.


Yup, the grandchildren might wonder that, but they'd be doing it while having to work 20 hour days just to keep food on the table. What Granny Doc wants is to be rich in a world of poverty and to get to watch everyone else suffer is how I read this. This is the one area I might agree with your view of our Koskiddie

I want every bamboozled, bubble headed, super-star chasing, reality show afficianado thrown off the island, and forced to swim in the shark infested waters of what their indifference has wrought.


wierd, confusing and has nothing to do with the rest of the post. Definitely shows that this person watches too much survivor though.

And I want it now, before this inept, self-serving Congress allows the Facists one more opportunity to fully convert this from the United States of America, into the 4th Reich.


I want to be rich, and I want it before I die. WAAAAHHHH!

----------------------------------

It would make me laugh if it wasn't that this diary has more than 800 responses. Scary to see how many KosKiddies suffer from the same form of dementia.

format mistake, sorry.
mvargus,

I can't help but hope you're right. That said, where do you see an explicit goal? Sure you can impute one. But the only thing I see explicit here is a demand to see people suffer. Almost as a divine justice for not being sufficiently supportive of her agenda. Sorry, but without reading anything other than the explicit into this, the suffering is what this rant is all about. I can't help but wonder if there's no explanation this little reign of terror can be made to work because its success or failure is incidental.
Posted by Bill_Dalasio
November 5, 2007 1:57 PM |

an explicit goal from a Koskiddie? Ouch, might as well as Ebenezer Scrooge for a penny. :P

The problem I have with this rant is that Granny Doc just seems to want to be in charge. We have naother typical liberal who thinks they are better and smarter than everyone else and wants all to BOW DOWN AND WORSHIP THE GREAT.. (fill in name here.)

Its part of the great delusion that liberals have. And it makes pegging the explicit goal difficult. Its easy to imply that the goal is to force major political and economic changes, but at no point does Granny put for a comprehensive agenda.

That is the one reason why you might be right. All to often with these Koskiddies or DUmmies or any other major liberal groups you have people who want to rebel against something, but don't seem to know why or what for. I'm reminded of a line from the musical South Pacific (movie version) where Joe Cable is arguing with the frenchman about helping the marines. Joe suddenly shouts, "We fighting the Japanese! We are against the Japanese!". The frenchman's reply was something I wish I could say to every liberal who bashes Bush. "I know what you are against. What are you for?"
Comprehensive Agenda? From a KOS diarist? You've got to be kidding! Heck, the Democrat party can't even come up with a comprehensive agenda!

Come to think of it, have we ever had any lib posters come up with a comprehensive agenda? I recall JH doing a post on this once or twice, but I can't recall the lib response.
Gee another dork begging for a socialist revolution... big deal.

Socialism is a pathetic, inherently weak, and primitive economic theory. The improvements in the standard of living for the people of the world have been achieved through expanding and regulating Capitalism. Socialism/Communism has brought stagnation and despotism.
What never seems to occur to this type of person is that if it takes that unbelievably huge a catastrophic collapse to bring about your utopia... maybe the system in place isn't all that bad. I mean, if people like things the way they are, if they've resulted in the US being the most powerful, richest country on earth, is it all that wrong?

Maybe, just maybe you could consider that there may be another way than your socialist dreams. Isn't that even possible?
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